What are the criterias in selecting language groovy vs Java? - java

What are the parameters considered in selecting groovy on grails framework or plain spring MVC based java application.
Considering a deals site www.deals2buy.com site which has
-rich content(images only) on the website
-reports for the admin
-normal CRUD operations
-heavy traffic on last days of the deals
Which language/technology would you choose for this kind of application?
Thanks in advance.
enthusiasts

My 2ct: if you need each single bit of performance I'd say go straight for Java. But of course given the fact that you can mix and match both, call one from another, you could work in Groovy and call Java for all that needs performance.
Groovy/Grails will give you faster turnaround, scaffolding, gorm, much less code and generally a lot of syntax sugar. And less speed.
Java has speed, and if comparing Java on one of the wide range of available containers to put your web app in, very good and mature management tools (which is good for production!).
But again since Groovy runs on JVM you should be able to develop in Groovy and deploy the app in a Java container and have your management tools (in this scenario Groovy != Grails).
So it will turn down to: how important it is to have good management tools? do you need all the speed you can get? which syntax do you feel more comfortable with? how much development productivity will the generators/gorm buy you (there is nothing you couldn't do in Java)? how do you plan to make your views: JSP, JSF, any other templating framework or prefer groovy templates?

Related

An apt database (and/or) framework suggestion needed

Well, I've taken help of Google, Stackoverflow and whatever else I could find, did as much as I could, but it seems that I am unable to find out an exact answer! I have multiple queries, and I would love to have answers from the database-people as well as from the programmers and framework users.
From the programming languages, I know C/C++, Java and Python. I have undertaken a CMS project that would require frequent C's & R's of the CRUD. The project would have 50k users atleast. The head-to-toe of the project has been all figured out, and now I need to code it and make it live online.
Well, I want to use Neo4j as my database as its data representation model (nodes and relationships) is closest to the real project model. Now, neo4j has bindings for various languages, and one of them is Python (whose python bindings are very oldish, the jpype hasn't been updated since ages). I am thinking of going for some Java based framework, but then I leave this idea as I personally haven't heard much of java frameworks. But one of my partner tells me to go for Zend (PHP) as it has some kind of functionality that lets us execute Java code. Won't this slow the code? I mean executing one language's code in another language...
So, it all comes to this:
1) Database: I would want to go for Neo4j. But does it goes well off when the scalability factor kicks in? (From what I could gather from google, there are no scalability issues).
2) What framework to use in case of Neo4j? I would require a framework that is able to handle tonnes of requests and large data as the users of the project would be Creating and Reading data a lot.
P.S.: I know it is a long question, but couldn't jot it down in lesser words!
I can't speak about the scalability or suitability of Neo4J for your particular project.
However, I'd strongly advise you against trying to mix and match languages like Java and PHP. It's so much easier to stick to the best one for your particular task. I'd also strongly advise you against using JNI for anything unless you have no other option. Java is fast enough that you should almost never need JNI for performance.
That said, it's OK to run Neo4j in its "full server" mode and then have your PHP or Python application access it using some driver over the network. I just wouldn't recommend making an ugly hybrid of PHP and Java at your application layer.
Some decent Java frameworks you could check out include:
Spring
Google Guice with Sitebricks
Apache Struts 2
They're pretty standard in the industry and there are tons of good resources available on all of them.
In regards to the mini-question about language interoperability, Java provides the JNI interface, which allows the JVM and user code to make calls into other languages and vice versa. When the native code (e.g. C code called by Java, or Java called from C) runs, it is actually running in its natural environment, so there's no performance loss in terms of actual execution.
Neo4j as a standalone server has also REST API: http://docs.neo4j.org/chunked/milestone/rest-api.html, if you can embedded your requests in single REST queries, there is no need to use native embedded neo4j. If there is no need to use the embedded neo4j, you can take any language of your choice.
Regarding the scalability, recently neo4j can be used on Azure, so it must be quite easy to scale. To learn more how to scale neo4j, go to this page on neo4j.org.
UPDATE: in the newest version of Neo4j, there is added the support for a new query language - http://blog.neo4j.org/2011/06/kiruna-stol-14-milestone-4.html.

Grails or Play! for an ex-RoR developer?

I plan to start learning a Java web framework (I love the Java API) I have already used Rails and Django.
I want something close to Java but without all the complexity of J2EE.
I've found 2 frameworks that could be good for me:
Grails
Grails looks great, it uses Groovy which is better than Java for web application (I think..) but it's slower than pure-java based frameworks (Hibernate, Strut, Spring) It looks pretty simple to deploy (send .war and it's ok!), the GSP is great! It's a bit harder to debug (need to restart the server at each modification and stacktraces contain a mix of Java and Groovy traces which is not always the easiest to understand)
Play!
This framework also looks great; it's faster than Grails (It uses Java) but I don't really like how it uses Java, it modifies the source code to transform the property calls as setXXX/getXXX, I do not like that... The framework also has a caching function that Grails does not have. I don't really like the Template Engine.
It's also easer to debug (no need to restart the server, stacktraces are clearer)
What do you recommend?
I am looking for something easy to learn (I have a lot of Ruby experience, not so much Java experience but I love the Java API), fully featured (That's no a problem with all the Java Library available, but if it's bundle and integrated I prefer), has good scalability and is not too slow (faster than Ruby) Ideally I would like to use a framework with a decent community to easily find support.
PS: I am not interested in JRuby on Rails
I switched from Grails to Play and I never looked back. My biggest problem with Grails was overall robustness and developer usability. Most of the time I got bitten by the fact that Grails glues together the usual stack of Spring MVC and Hibernate while trying to hide this fact and giving you a Rails-like API (personal opinion of mine). The problem with this is, once something goes beyond the trivial samples, it easily broke and didnt work for me. Developing with it was like walking on eggs (for me). Whenever I googled for documentation of a feature I needed, I was not redirected to samples, tutorials, blogs, but to the Grails JIRA explaining me why the feature wouldnt work for my use case and that the bug was unresolved since two versions before the one I was using.
While that may not be the overall experience for every developer (I am not writing this to bash Grails, but to give my experiences with it here), I needed something that helped me and would not stand in my way or break down on me when I needed it the most. Thats when I found Play and I have quickly migrated my app to it after I found out about it (around the ~1.0 release).
So far it has been a great ride and for the first time in my web development career, I have stopped looking at other frameworks trying to find something that I would like better.
If I had to close with one thing that Play did better than Grails - at least for me - it would be the fact the Play is built from the ground up with developer usability in mind. It does not sacrifice ease of use for enterprise buzzwords. It has the guts to throw away what does not fit into this paradigm (e.g. ditchting Servlet-based runtimes during development for faster turnaround). It is willing to make compromises in order to guarantee awesomeness. And that is something I have only seen in communities like Rails or Django before I found Play.
I'd suggest Grails. It has a bigger community than the play framework does (~350 plugins covering pretty much every basic need). Also, grails is written almost completely in Java, it just lets you use Groovy for your domain specific implementation.
If you do run into a performance issue where the groovy pages that you've created are the bottleneck, you can always just switch to a Java implementation. Then you're in the same boat that you would have been with the Play framework all the time. You've optimized your development time by putting off the coding of things in Java till you know that you actually need to do it (which, in my experience is very rare).
I'm also not sure where you heard that you need to restart your server for each modification, but that's actually not true. Grails supports reloading of controllers/gsps/services/domain objects, etc without restarting your server.
The mixed stacktraces can get a little long, but tool vendors (like Intellij) have made some recent improvements that strip out all the stacktrace portions that you don't care about.
I've been using grails since the .5 days and have been very happy with the platform.
Take note that the Play! framework now supports using Scala as of 1.1
From my experience with Play it's a great framework. My favorite features are the cool controller system and the template system - both are simple but feature-rich and powerful.
However the most important benefit of Play is definitely the rapid development cycle, where virtually no reloading is needed on code changes. But if you're not careful, this greatness won't last much, and slowness will eventually creep into your code.
Why is that?
With Play there is common use of some plugins with pretty heavy initialization, notably EJB (Hibernate) and Spring. The initialization of these plugins is re-run on every code change before the new code is loaded. As a result of this, as your model and your system configuration grow, this heavy initialization starts to seriously slow down your development. In the system I used 20 seconds were a typical startup time on a virtual machine running on a kickass laptop.
What you can do to avoid this depends on your application, e.g. if you're building a NoSQL application then then EJB plugin should not give you trouble. Spring can be replaced with a custom hard-coded Java plugin, which IMHO is also easier to maintain, or run a Groovy script if scriptability is that important. In any case, watch out for these problems and kill them while the're young - and be sure not to be running your own bulky initializations on every refresh.
If you have used Ruby and Python before, you will probably enjoy Grails better than Play. It very hard to get back to Java once you are used to these dynamic languages.
There is also Lift on Scala.
Imho scala is the best static typed language and lift is a pretty nice framework (for a static typed language).

recommendation for choosing a new web development stack

I work in a medium to small team ( 10 people ) developing and supporting several web enterprise applications.
We have a dozen of them built with a house-made framework with asp-classic working against ms-sql server.
We are evaluating the migration to a new development stack.
We'd like it to be open (free) and simple.
I've been looking around the java web frameworks, but all of them seem to be extremely overbloated for our needs (with the possible exception of http://www.playframework.org/, which I couldn't study yet...)
We are thinking about porting our own framework to this new stack, rather than adopting a whole new stack that we are unaware of ...
so far now, we though about the following possibilities
plain java - jsp - jsf
groovy - gsp (no grails at all)
jruby (no rails at all)
we feel really comfortable working with dynamic languages (well, as dynamic as classic asp can be) and with a lean and understandable framework...
I see no small and simple web frameworks for java, like there are for php or ruby...
I really like groovy, but I see no web implementations outside of grails... Besides the language documentation doesn't seem to be quite complete (I might be looking in the wrong place, perhaps)
php could be an option, but I think it would be hard to advocate for it in my current work...
any other option, advice, pros and cons?
thanks a lot
--
edit
some related link Can anyone recommend a simple Java web-app framework?
I'd suggest you take another look at Grails. It does use hibernate and spring under the covers, but for most situations, you don't need to know the details of those frameworks. There's a large community and lots of documentation/blogs/mailing lists for support, as well as a thriving plugin community with over 300 plugins solving pretty much any need.
If you're still put off by grails, you could look into the play framework. I don't have any experience with it, but there has been some traffic recently around it on hacker news and the like. I know it uses groovy for the templating language.
I cannot recommend anything, but strongly recommend that you consider these things:
Rapid development. Basically you want to save a page file, and reload it in the browser. Instantly! It can be done, do not settle for long deployment times.
Plain, readable text files!
Convention coding instead of explicit coding - big XML files will eventually drive one or more developers insane. The less, the better.
Good tool support (just having syntax coloring may be a big help)
Consider the long term support of your choice. You are basically remarrying with your software - will it still be maintained in 10 years? By whom? Will you have alternatives (JSR's are great - look at the amount of servlet engines)?
And WHEN you choose - get the source code for it, and ensure that it builds correctly. It will never be easier than now, and some day you WILL need to fix something inside. On short notice! (You may even consider allocating resources for donating documentation/patches/time to the open source project you are building your business on).
EDIT: A few more things:
You want to be able to verify things at compile time. One of the things that make it possible to build cathedrals in Java is that the static typechecking prevents a lot of nasty runtime errors. "Oh, THAT method? Well, it's not here, sorry. Boom!"
You want good error reporting. Built in! Try throwing a NullPointerException deep, deep down and see what 1) the user and 2) the developer is told about it. Anything that requires going to a log file to get the details WILL cause calls at 3 AM eventually.
Look into scalability from the start. Any non-trivial customer will need to and the world goes to multicores, so you might as well think about it already now. What will you do when all the magic pixie performance dust has been used and it just isn't enough: The application requires more than a single box.
And read this: http://www.pragprog.com/titles/mnee/release-it
You're forgetting about the other major player in this field: the LAMP stack (linux, Apache, MySQL and mod_perl). All components are free, there are many books available on LAMP development and each of these components, and there are vast numbers of libraries and components already available.
Apache: the Definitive Guide
Learning Perl: by SO's brian d foy
Practical mod_perl
If you are afraid of Grails and need Java, try Stripes and read the excellent Stripes book (http://www.stripesbook.com/blog/). You can buy the eBook pdf for $23. The book covers the framework in amazing detail. Stripes is a very strong, lightweight MVC framework that deals with all the common problems of web development (templates, url mapping, form validation, security, internationalization, testing) but it won't automagically create the database layer for you unless you want it to by using Stripernate. You can also use Groovy with it. You can use it standalone or with Spring.
I've had great success in simple web projects using Spring MVC with JSTL JSPs. Spring MVC is a framework that can be kept pretty darn simple (1 additional XML file used for configuration). You can eschew all the fancy options and just specify a set of JSPs that you want to associate with view names, then forward to those views by specifying their names in the controller.
Spring MVC can also easily scale up and be as complex as you need, letting you switch from JSTL to JSTL with Tiles, or Struts, or JSF, or Wicket. It can also handle complex web flows using the Spring Web Flow project. But for most projects I just keep it simple -- build a JSTL JSP, create a controller that provides the objects that JSP needs, and associate them by having the controller return that view. Once you get the project set up and you're familiar with the configuration, it takes maybe a couple minutes to wire a new page into place.
If you like Groovy but don't like Grails you could try Gaelyk, which is a lightweight Groovy framework. However, AFAIK you can only use Gaelyk if you're hosting the app on the Google App Engine
If your apps won't be hosted on GAE, and you really don't want to use Grails, another option is to use Groovlets, Groovy template servlet, GSPs.
However, personally I think it's a big mistake to dismiss Grails. It really is a great framework, and you can go a long way without knowing much about Spring and Hibernate. One of your complaints is a lack of Grails documentation. I think you must have been looking in the wrong place, because in addition to all the books available, there's a very extensive reference document and a lot of other documentation available on the website. Finally, there's a very active mailing list.
My platform of choice is JRuby - Rails (3) because of its very rich and powerful ecosystem, but mainly because:
* very easy to use
* many MANY libraries
* fast support via IRC
* deep documentation
You can also check out Scala + Lift Web Framework ( imho best static typed language, nice framework )

Choosing Java vs Python on Google App Engine

Currently Google App Engine supports both Python & Java. Java support is less mature. However, Java seems to have a longer list of libraries and especially support for Java bytecode regardless of the languages used to write that code. Which language will give better performance and more power? Please advise. Thank you!
Edit:
http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine-java/web/will-it-play-in-app-engine?pli=1
Edit:
By "power" I mean better expandability and inclusion of available libraries outside the framework. Python allows only pure Python libraries, though.
I'm biased (being a Python expert but pretty rusty in Java) but I think the Python runtime of GAE is currently more advanced and better developed than the Java runtime -- the former has had one extra year to develop and mature, after all.
How things will proceed going forward is of course hard to predict -- demand is probably stronger on the Java side (especially since it's not just about Java, but other languages perched on top of the JVM too, so it's THE way to run e.g. PHP or Ruby code on App Engine); the Python App Engine team however does have the advantage of having on board Guido van Rossum, the inventor of Python and an amazingly strong engineer.
In terms of flexibility, the Java engine, as already mentioned, does offer the possibility of running JVM bytecode made by different languages, not just Java -- if you're in a multi-language shop that's a pretty large positive. Vice versa, if you loathe Javascript but must execute some code in the user's browser, Java's GWT (generating the Javascript for you from your Java-level coding) is far richer and more advanced than Python-side alternatives (in practice, if you choose Python, you'll be writing some JS yourself for this purpose, while if you choose Java GWT is a usable alternative if you loathe writing JS).
In terms of libraries it's pretty much a wash -- the JVM is restricted enough (no threads, no custom class loaders, no JNI, no relational DB) to hamper the simple reuse of existing Java libraries as much, or more, than existing Python libraries are similarly hampered by the similar restrictions on the Python runtime.
In terms of performance, I think it's a wash, though you should benchmark on tasks of your own -- don't rely on the performance of highly optimized JIT-based JVM implementations discounting their large startup times and memory footprints, because the app engine environment is very different (startup costs will be paid often, as instances of your app are started, stopped, moved to different hosts, etc, all trasparently to you -- such events are typically much cheaper with Python runtime environments than with JVMs).
The XPath/XSLT situation (to be euphemistic...) is not exactly perfect on either side, sigh, though I think it may be a tad less bad in the JVM (where, apparently, substantial subsets of Saxon can be made to run, with some care). I think it's worth opening issues on the Appengine Issues page with XPath and XSLT in their titles -- right now there are only issues asking for specific libraries, and that's myopic: I don't really care HOW a good XPath/XSLT is implemented, for Python and/or for Java, as long as I get to use it. (Specific libraries may ease migration of existing code, but that's less important than being able to perform such tasks as "rapidly apply XSLT transformation" in SOME way!-). I know I'd star such an issue if well phrased (especially in a language-independent way).
Last but not least: remember that you can have different version of your app (using the same datastore) some of which are implemented with the Python runtime, some with the Java runtime, and you can access versions that differ from the "default/active" one with explicit URLs. So you could have both Python and Java code (in different versions of your app) use and modify the same data store, granting you even more flexibility (though only one will have the "nice" URL such as foobar.appspot.com -- which is probably important only for access by interactive users on browsers, I imagine;-).
Watch this app for changes in Python and Java performance:
http://gaejava.appspot.com/
(edit: apologies, link is broken now. But following para still applied when I saw it running last)
Currently, Python and using the low-level API in Java are faster than JDO on Java, for this simple test. At least if the underlying engine changes, that app should reflect performance changes.
Based on experience with running these VMs on other platforms, I'd say that you'll probably get more raw performance out of Java than Python. Don't underestimate Python's selling points, however: The Python language is much more productive in terms of lines of code - the general agreement is that Python requires a third of the code of an equivalent Java program, while remaining as or more readable. This benefit is multiplied by the ability to run code immediately without an explicit compile step.
With regards to available libraries, you'll find that much of the extensive Python runtime library works out of the box (as does Java's). The popular Django Web framework (http://www.djangoproject.com/) is also supported on AppEngine.
With regards to 'power', it's difficult to know what you mean, but Python is used in many different domains, especially the Web: YouTube is written in Python, as is Sourceforge (as of last week).
June 2013: This video is a very good answer by a google engineer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLriM2krw2E
TLDR; is:
Pick the language that you and your team is most productive with
If you want to build something for production: Java or Python (not Go)
If you have a big team and a complex code base: Java (because of static code analysis and refactoring)
Small teams that iterate quickly: Python (although Java is also okay)
An important question to consider in deciding between Python and Java is how you will use the datastore in each language (and most other angles to the original question have already been covered quite well in this topic).
For Java, the standard method is to use JDO or JPA. These are great for portability but are not very well suited to the datastore.
A low-level API is available but this is too low level for day-to-day use - it is more suitable for building 3rd party libraries.
For Python there is an API designed specifically to provide applications with easy but powerful access to the datastore. It is great except that it is not portable so it locks you into GAE.
Fortunately, there are solutions being developed for the weaknesses listed for both languages.
For Java, the low-level API is being used to develop persistence libraries that are much better suited to the datastore then JDO/JPA (IMO). Examples include the Siena project, and Objectify.
I've recently started using Objectify and am finding it to be very easy to use and well suited to the datastore, and its growing popularity has translated into good support. For example, Objectify is officially supported by Google's new Cloud Endpoints service. On the other hand, Objectify only works with the datastore, while Siena is 'inspired' by the datastore but is designed to work with a variety of both SQL databases and NoSQL datastores.
For Python, there are efforts being made to allow the use of the Python GAE datastore API off of the GAE. One example is the SQLite backend that Google released for use with the SDK, but I doubt they intend this to grow into something production ready. The TyphoonAE project probably has more potential, but I don't think it is production ready yet either (correct me if I am wrong).
If anyone has experience with any of these alternatives or knows of others, please add them in a comment. Personally, I really like the GAE datastore - I find it to be a considerable improvement over the AWS SimpleDB - so I wish for the success of these efforts to alleviate some of the issues in using it.
I'm strongly recommending Java for GAE and here's why:
Performance: Java is potentially faster then Python.
Python development is under pressure of a lack of third-party libraries. For example, there is no XSLT for Python/GAE at all. Almost all Python libraries are C bindings (and those are unsupported by GAE).
Memcache API: Java SDK have more interesting abilities than Python SDK.
Datastore API: JDO is very slow, but native Java datastore API is very fast and easy.
I'm using Java/GAE in development right now.
As you've identified, using a JVM doesn't restrict you to using the Java language. A list of JVM languages and links can be found here. However, the Google App Engine does restrict the set of classes you can use from the normal Java SE set, and you will want to investigate if any of these implementations can be used on the app engine.
EDIT: I see you've found such a list
I can't comment on the performance of Python. However, the JVM is a very powerful platform performance-wise, given its ability to dynamically compile and optimise code during the run time.
Ultimately performance will depend on what your application does, and how you code it. In the absence of further info, I think it's not possible to give any more pointers in this area.
I've been amazed at how clean, straightforward, and problem free the Python/Django SDK is. However I started running into situations where I needed to start doing more JavaScript and thought I might want to take advantage of the GWT and other Java utilities. I've gotten just half way through the GAE Java tutorial, and have had one problem after another: Eclipse configuration issues, JRE versionitis, the mind-numbing complexity of Java, and a confusing and possibly broken tutorial. Checking out this site and others linked from here clinched it for me. I'm going back to Python, and I'll look into Pyjamas to help with my JavaScript challenges.
I'm a little late to the conversation, but here are my two cents. I really had a hard time choosing between Python and Java, since I am well versed in both languages. As we all know, there are advantages and disadvantages for both, and you have to take in account your requirements and the frameworks that work best for your project.
As I usually do in this type of dilemmas, I look for numbers to support my decision. I decided to go with Python for many reasons, but in my case, there was one plot that was the tipping point. If you search "Google App Engine" in GitHub as of September 2014, you will find the following figure:
There could be many biases in these numbers, but overall, there are three times more GAE Python repositories than GAE Java repositories. Not only that, but if you list the projects by the "number of stars" you will see that a majority of the Python projects appear at the top (you have to take in account that Python has been around longer). To me, this makes a strong case for Python because I take in account community adoption & support, documentation, and availability of open-source projects.
It's a good question, and I think many of the responses have given good view points of pros and cons on both sides of the fence. I've tried both Python and JVM-based AppEngine (in my case I was using Gaelyk which is a Groovy application framework built for AppEngine). When it comes to performance on the platform, one thing I hadn't considered until it was staring me in the face is the implication of "Loading Requests" that occur on the Java side of the fence. When using Groovy these loading requests are a killer.
I put a post together on the topic (http://distractable.net/coding/google-appengine-java-vs-python-performance-comparison/) and I'm hoping to find a way of working around the problem, but if not I think I'll be going back to a Python + Django combination until cold starting java requests has less of an impact.
Based on how much I hear Java people complain about AppEngine compared to Python users, I would say Python is much less stressful to use.
There's also project Unladen Swallow, which is apparently Google-funded if not Google-owned. They're trying to implement a LLVM-based backend for Python 2.6.1 bytecode, so they can use a JIT and various nice native code/GC/multi-core optimisations. (Nice quote: "We aspire to do no original work, instead using as much of the last 30 years of research as possible.") They're looking for a 5x speed-up to CPython.
Of course this doesn't answer your immediate question, but points towards a "closing of the gap" (if any) in the future (hopefully).
The beauty of python nowdays is how well it communicates with other languages. For instance you can have both python and java on the same table with Jython. Of course jython even though it fully supports java libraries it does not support fully python libraries. But its an ideal solution if you want to mess with Java Libraries. It even allows you to mix it with Java code with no extra coding.
But even python itself has made some steps forwared. See ctypes for example, near C speed , direct accees to C libraries all of this without leaving the comfort of python coding. Cython goes one step further , allowing to mix c code with python code with ease, or even if you dont want to mess with c or c++ , you can still code in python but use statically type variables making your python programms as fast as C apps. Cython is both used and supported by google by the way.
Yesterday I even found tools for python to inline C or even Assembly (see CorePy) , you cant get any more powerful than that.
Python is surely a very mature language, not only standing on itself , but able to coooperate with any other language with easy. I think that is what makes python an ideal solution even in a very advanced and demanding scenarios.
With python you can have acess to C/C++ ,Java , .NET and many other libraries with almost zero additional coding giving you also a language that minimises, simplifies and beautifies coding. Its a very tempting language.
Gone with Python even though GWT seems a perfect match for the kind of an app I'm developing. JPA is pretty messed up on GAE (e.g. no #Embeddable and other obscure non-documented limitations). Having spent a week, I can tell that Java just doesn't feel right on GAE at the moment.
One think to take into account are the frameworks you intend yo use. Not all frameworks on Java side are well suited for applications running on App Engine, which is somewhat different than traditional Java app servers.
One thing to consider is the application startup time. With traditional Java web apps you don't really need to think about this. The application starts and then it just runs. Doesn't really matter if the startup takes 5 seconds or couple of minutes. With App Engine you might end up in a situation where the application is only started when a request comes in. This means the user is waiting while your application boots up. New GAE features like reserved instances help here, but check first.
Another thing are the different limitations GAE psoes on Java. Not all frameworks are happy with the limitations on what classes you can use or the fact that threads are not allowed or that you can't access local filesystem. These issues are probably easy to find out by just googling about GAE compatibility.
I've also seen some people complaining about issues with session size on modern UI frameworks (Wicket, namely). In general these frameworks tend to do certain trade-offs in order to make development fun, fast and easy. Sometimes this may lead to conflicts with the App Engine limitations.
I initially started developing working on GAE with Java, but then switched to Python because of these reasons. My personal feeling is that Python is a better choice for App Engine development. I think Java is more "at home" for example on Amazon's Elastic Beanstalk.
BUT with App Engine things are changing very rapidly. GAE is changing itself and as it becomes more popular, the frameworks are also changing to work around its limitations.

Using java (desktop) codebase in a webapp

I have a rather large (80k loc) java desktop app that talks to a database. We're now looking at exposing some parts of the database via a web application, using the existing codebase and preferably not having to modify it.
I have good separation between the data access, business logic and presentation layers, but we haven't used enterprise java beans or anything like that (if that's important).
What's the best way forward? Which of the java web frameworks will be best suited to the problem? Learning curve isn't terribly important, since I haven't done any java development on the web...
To be true, it depends what you already have, and how well is the design of your current desktop application. You might not be able to use any or may be minimal of your existing code without modifying it, if its designed badly, and everything is tightly coupled.
Assuming that you are having a system with a good design, everything is de-coupled well enough. You can look into Stripes to make your presentation for the web, and use your existing data access and business code. I wish you all the luck.
Few other goodies to look into are, Groovy on Grail, Wicket.
I don't recommend anything like Seam and Spring they are more of a container and sophisticated large frameworks, which give you almost everything, solution for almost all of your problems. As you mentioned that you already have a complete system, and you just need to make a web interface to publish it for the web, these are not recommended, IMO.
JSF, is a good framework, but it might drive you nuts and has a big learning curve, according to few folks.
The two frameworks I would recommend would be Grails and Struts 2.
Grails comes with a whole bunch of stuff that it configures under the covers including Hibernate and Spring. It makes generating dynamic pages to send to the browser ridiculously easy. What you are probably going to need to do is set up controllers that call Grails services which reference your existing code as you probably don't want Grails managing your database interactions. The disadvantage with Grails is not so much that it is written in Groovy, which is easy to learn for Java programmers, but that the IDE support for Groovy is still maturing. Still if you want quick productivity this is the route to go down.
Struts 2 offers a clean command pattern framework implementation that talks to JSPs (or velocity or FreeMarker templates) on the front end. To use this you would configure actions to call your existing code. You may want to investigate adding Spring to the mix depending on what you need to do.
There are other choices but these are two that I have had some success with.

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